Monday, September 26, 2005
Reply
NOW THAT WAS AN EXCELLENT POST ! Thank you, however I must comment on it as I feel you and other readers definitely have the wrong concept of this Blah-g.
Let me post the last comment with my explanations included.
+ + + + +
EXACTLY! There's always 2 sides to the story. From the people I've talked to it seems to be working ok and they really have no complaints.I speak to several fire and police chiefs that are very dissatisfied with the DEAD SPOTS and the Digi-Crap (the name I call the digital noise that the radio picks up when the whole transmission data stream isn’t received). This also includes many Policemen, Firemen, and EMS personnel in general. The people you talk to and those that I talk to do have a disagreement.This site is so biased it's unbelievable--if you're going to provide information you need to do it in an objective manner.
I disagree. I attempt to provide other sides to this system however when the commissioners and 911 management refuse to comment it is hard to provide another side. The things that I do not know about I search daily for the answers, however it is hard with everyone so tight lipped.
I find it interesting that when the blag-h first started there was really no mention of any problems, but when personal problems with 911 mangement came into play; all of a sudden the system turns into a piece of garbage literally overnight!
The Blah-g stated out when two officers from Washington Township began using the system is their personal intercom, no one was officially on the system yet. It was funny and fun to write about. There were no problems to write about at that time as no one knew just how many DEAD SPOTS would show up once more portables were handed out and cars were equipped with radios.
Once the county began installing these radios and stations were put on the air officially, DEAD SPOTS were found everywhere and communications were half-assed at best (where they are now). My comments about 911 management ARE NOT PERSONAL, they are indeed PROFESSIONAL. I do not know Rich, Mark, Dan and most others at the center so HOW could it be personal. Joe N. is the only one up there in management that I know personally AS A FRIEND. He and I speak however about the things friends would talk about, NOT ABOUT THIS SYSTEM.
If 911 Management WOULD COMMENT on this system and explain the problems they are having ON THE RECORD then I would have nothing to yell and scream about, would I. Let them explain the DEAD SPOTS, DOA RADIOS OUT OF THE BOX and all the other issues I have brought up.
This Blah-g is NOT a PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANYONE, HOWEVER IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON A SYSTEM ! A SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION PROPERLY.
Are there some problems? Yes, but every new system is going to have them--the kinks need time to be addresed and worked out. Think about it-you went from a low band simplex system using 1940's technology with at the most 2 channels to an 800 system that's digital and has hundreds of talkgroups. The users of the system need time to adjust and learn the ropes. If you're going to post what people's comments about the system are, do so from an unbiased standpoint.
You do NOT put a system on line when there are KINKS, it could COST SOMEONE THEIR LIFE ! You work out the KINKS THEN put everyone on line, PERIOD.
There have been people in the county who have opposed ANY change in the radio system since day one. Outrage is shown over dead spots with the new system-where was that outrage all of these years when taxpayer money was used to maintain the LOW BAND system that you couldn't talk squat to 911 or anyone else more than a mile from you?
I am only commenting on THIS system, not the LOW BAND system. Let’s leave that go until this system is discussed to hell and back.
TAC channels are unsafe for communiations?
TAC channels are ONLY UNSAFE for FIRE GROUND COMMUNICATIONS, please FOLLOW my Blah-gs and don’t take words out of context.
You DO have talkaround capability, use it if you desire to! I guess that having Somerset, Cambria, Indiana, Fayette,other Dispatches from Westmoreland, not to mention skip from all over stepping over you on 33.70 is much safer, isn't it?
I don’t have ANY 911 radio capabilities, I am RETIRED RADIO MAINTENANCE looking out for those using this new system. Or do you mean this system ? I think it's great we get away from all the other services HOWEVER 800 Mhz was NOT the way to go. ANY RADIO ENGINEER THAT KNOWS THIS TERRAIN WILL TELL YOU THAT. Don't be so bullheaded or do you work for the county or Motorola ?
Focus on the system's good and bad points, and plausible ways it can be improved--the idea of switching to 400 MHZ UHF after all of the equipment has been installed in vehicles, towers, etc. is just asinine. I hope that the blag-h will one day return to its original configuration as a reliable, unbiased source for info-right now there are other site that currently do a much better job.
As I mentioned, EXCELLENT POST. Allowing you to even reply to my Blah-g is an OPTION that I TURNED ON. I set it up this way on purpose so that OTHERS LIKE YOURSELF CAN POST RESPONSIBLE replies and comments.
Hell, I even let that idiot post here and he keeps calling me a jackass. Hmmm, it's funny BUT I KNOW WHO THEY ARE... emails and inside information are wonderful.
Posting good things about this system can be done in one sentence.
It sounds good when it works.
I won’t get into talkgroups or other items at the moment because there is more involved then just saying we have 100’s of talkgroups (you can only use 10 at a time !).
VHF or 400 Mhz was the way we SHOULD HAVE GONE but the BRAIN that set this up apparently had access to more 800 Mhz radios than 400 Mhz ones. Switching to 400 Mhz might seem asinine to you BUT HAVING SOMEONE DIE OVER THIS SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE ASININE, wouldn’t you agree ?
All my other comments have been covered in the many Blah-gs that I have written. 8 0 0 is B A D for W C, P E R I O D !
Thanks again !
DECODED,
K3SAM
Let me post the last comment with my explanations included.
+ + + + +
EXACTLY! There's always 2 sides to the story. From the people I've talked to it seems to be working ok and they really have no complaints.I speak to several fire and police chiefs that are very dissatisfied with the DEAD SPOTS and the Digi-Crap (the name I call the digital noise that the radio picks up when the whole transmission data stream isn’t received). This also includes many Policemen, Firemen, and EMS personnel in general. The people you talk to and those that I talk to do have a disagreement.This site is so biased it's unbelievable--if you're going to provide information you need to do it in an objective manner.
I disagree. I attempt to provide other sides to this system however when the commissioners and 911 management refuse to comment it is hard to provide another side. The things that I do not know about I search daily for the answers, however it is hard with everyone so tight lipped.
I find it interesting that when the blag-h first started there was really no mention of any problems, but when personal problems with 911 mangement came into play; all of a sudden the system turns into a piece of garbage literally overnight!
The Blah-g stated out when two officers from Washington Township began using the system is their personal intercom, no one was officially on the system yet. It was funny and fun to write about. There were no problems to write about at that time as no one knew just how many DEAD SPOTS would show up once more portables were handed out and cars were equipped with radios.
Once the county began installing these radios and stations were put on the air officially, DEAD SPOTS were found everywhere and communications were half-assed at best (where they are now). My comments about 911 management ARE NOT PERSONAL, they are indeed PROFESSIONAL. I do not know Rich, Mark, Dan and most others at the center so HOW could it be personal. Joe N. is the only one up there in management that I know personally AS A FRIEND. He and I speak however about the things friends would talk about, NOT ABOUT THIS SYSTEM.
If 911 Management WOULD COMMENT on this system and explain the problems they are having ON THE RECORD then I would have nothing to yell and scream about, would I. Let them explain the DEAD SPOTS, DOA RADIOS OUT OF THE BOX and all the other issues I have brought up.
This Blah-g is NOT a PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANYONE, HOWEVER IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON A SYSTEM ! A SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT FUNCTION PROPERLY.
Are there some problems? Yes, but every new system is going to have them--the kinks need time to be addresed and worked out. Think about it-you went from a low band simplex system using 1940's technology with at the most 2 channels to an 800 system that's digital and has hundreds of talkgroups. The users of the system need time to adjust and learn the ropes. If you're going to post what people's comments about the system are, do so from an unbiased standpoint.
You do NOT put a system on line when there are KINKS, it could COST SOMEONE THEIR LIFE ! You work out the KINKS THEN put everyone on line, PERIOD.
There have been people in the county who have opposed ANY change in the radio system since day one. Outrage is shown over dead spots with the new system-where was that outrage all of these years when taxpayer money was used to maintain the LOW BAND system that you couldn't talk squat to 911 or anyone else more than a mile from you?
I am only commenting on THIS system, not the LOW BAND system. Let’s leave that go until this system is discussed to hell and back.
TAC channels are unsafe for communiations?
TAC channels are ONLY UNSAFE for FIRE GROUND COMMUNICATIONS, please FOLLOW my Blah-gs and don’t take words out of context.
You DO have talkaround capability, use it if you desire to! I guess that having Somerset, Cambria, Indiana, Fayette,other Dispatches from Westmoreland, not to mention skip from all over stepping over you on 33.70 is much safer, isn't it?
I don’t have ANY 911 radio capabilities, I am RETIRED RADIO MAINTENANCE looking out for those using this new system. Or do you mean this system ? I think it's great we get away from all the other services HOWEVER 800 Mhz was NOT the way to go. ANY RADIO ENGINEER THAT KNOWS THIS TERRAIN WILL TELL YOU THAT. Don't be so bullheaded or do you work for the county or Motorola ?
Focus on the system's good and bad points, and plausible ways it can be improved--the idea of switching to 400 MHZ UHF after all of the equipment has been installed in vehicles, towers, etc. is just asinine. I hope that the blag-h will one day return to its original configuration as a reliable, unbiased source for info-right now there are other site that currently do a much better job.
As I mentioned, EXCELLENT POST. Allowing you to even reply to my Blah-g is an OPTION that I TURNED ON. I set it up this way on purpose so that OTHERS LIKE YOURSELF CAN POST RESPONSIBLE replies and comments.
Hell, I even let that idiot post here and he keeps calling me a jackass. Hmmm, it's funny BUT I KNOW WHO THEY ARE... emails and inside information are wonderful.
Posting good things about this system can be done in one sentence.
It sounds good when it works.
I won’t get into talkgroups or other items at the moment because there is more involved then just saying we have 100’s of talkgroups (you can only use 10 at a time !).
VHF or 400 Mhz was the way we SHOULD HAVE GONE but the BRAIN that set this up apparently had access to more 800 Mhz radios than 400 Mhz ones. Switching to 400 Mhz might seem asinine to you BUT HAVING SOMEONE DIE OVER THIS SYSTEM IS EVEN MORE ASININE, wouldn’t you agree ?
All my other comments have been covered in the many Blah-gs that I have written. 8 0 0 is B A D for W C, P E R I O D !
Thanks again !
DECODED,
K3SAM
your FEEDBACK ! counts
TGIM…
So, what’s wrong with that ?
Just think, you have a WHOLE new week of radio problems, hitting the emergency button by mistake, hearing 911 say “10-9”, having your radio tell you the system is busy or that you are out of range of the nearest (working) tower site… and all that other bull-happy-ha-ha !
What the hell, it’s Monday so why limit this whole thing to 800 Mhz today ? With Bear Caves Low Band Tower being up and down more than a Duncan Yo-Yo plus the site in North Huntingdon doing the same thing you might not even know there is a disaster in your area and you can sleep like a baby all night long ! Isn’t that precious !
Before I forget, I posted a few new audio files on the web site for your listening pleasure on Saturday so if you didn’t have a chance to listen and download them you can do so when the boss isn’t looking.
Remember and don’t always forget… these audio files are FREE for the picking.
I was extremely pleased this weekend to receive a few NEW emails from readers of this Blah-g.
PERHAPS all of my time and effort into opening some eyes within Westmoreland County (WC) on this flawed communications system has not been wasted.. or better yet, maybe PEOPLE ARE OPENING THEIR OWN EYES without my help and seeing just how bad it really is.
So without further a do-do, and without making anyone lose their jobs ( all emails remain anonymous ) here we go with YOUR REAL feedback:
“I work in EMS in WC and for all the TAC channels we have now and all the fu_king money we spent for this stupid ass system, you would think you would be able to get through to 911. I’m glad that we have a call taker in station that I can talk to on VHF because 911 can't hear me on 800. The best is when you have a shitty call and you are with your patient, and your handy dandy portable 800mhz radio is beeping out of range when you need additional resources. But now I have to walk to my ambulance to try to talk to 911 on my mobile 800. HAHAHA!!! They don't answer me again!!! So my call taker at the station will call for additional help. We don't get a kick back from the county when they don't answer us. I want a county car just for putting up with these idiots.“
“I wonder why Mutual Aid has there own bank of dispatch and TAC channels? I'm sure that they have some sort of super power over the 911 management team to get this taken care of.“
“There is just more and more bull shit about this whole 800 system that I think is garbage. State of the art my ass.“
”The North Huntingdon Township fire companies are not even on the 800 system yet - but yet their warranties run out I believe in November. A maintenance plan is available on the radios but it is at an astronomical cost - they want a price per radio per month. It's almost like a cell phone repair plan. The cost per month to do ALL of the radios in some stations is about the same as buying a brand new portable every 3 months. Another subject of interest - surrounding areas to North Huntingdon Township (Sewickely Twp, Penn Twp, North Irwin Borough, and Irwin Borough) are on the system. Mutual Aid to these areas can only be done through portables. The base radios and mobile radios in these trucks exist - but they are NOT PROGRAMMED. Basically they are useless. Some of the companies just had them finally put in last month. They just suck up power when on. I don't understand why the county is doing this. Thanks for reading”
“I know your not a firefighter but I came across a website that I thought might be of interest to you and that is www.firefighterclosecalls.com they actually have a handful of stories about different radio failures not in Westmoreland Co but in other states around the USA . You will see the link on the home page .”
“If the IC (Incident Commander) of a fire scene wanted to have simplex communications at a fire ground, then they could have the interior crews switch to Channel 16 in their portables, as this is the designated "talkaround" channel for every portable. The ability IS already there. I don't think that making ALL of the fire tac channels simplex is the answer, as there are many types of calls that could benefit from the use of repeaters. As far as the TAC channels go, there are other places around the area that utilize a similar setup, with some slight differences. Allegheny County 911-North Zone (formerly Newcom) is an example. There are approximately 40 Fire companies for that region which operate on a conventional UHF system, with the companies being designated as either a "North" comapny, or a "South" company. All departments get dispatched on "Fire 1". The only trafic on this channel comes from the dispatch and no one else. Units always respond on their designated channel-"Fire 2" for North Co.'s, and "Fire 3" for South Co.'s. Once on scene they are assigned one of 4 fireground channels by dispatch. I'm not sure how true this is, but that's the way I was told it was supposed to be originally for Westmoreland--units were to respond and communicate with dispatch on the "Zone X Command" talkgroup, and then switch to a Fire TAC talkgroup ONLY after they got on scene. If it were like that, then at least it would be a little more consistant, as units would know to initially acknowledge/respond on their designated "Zone Command" talkgroup, depending on which zone of the county the department would happen to be in.” (BLAH-GER COMMENT: Thanks, however that is what CountyWide TAC Channels are for. Simplex should always be used on the fire grounds as I have been stressing AND has been backed up by most fire chiefs AND Homeland Security.)
“You have a very nice site. I also dislike the 800 radios I think it was a waste of money.”
“Just wanted to know if you were listening Saturday early afternoon not exactly sure of the time, I only caught part of the Transmission but what I did ways disturbing, This isn't regarding 911 but what the 800 mhz was supposed to do. The Avonmore Jubilee began this weekend, and to try to have a joint operation County wide Tach 12 was too be used to communicate among the services. Well some loud mouth crybaby doesn't play well with others he felt it wasn't needed and advised 911 dispatch he wasn't going to do the switch to Tach 12 and remain on his dispatch channel to of course delay any response. Well why the hell have any county wide Tach channels then, unless you enjoy clusters, not sure who the moron was but he needs a little education it seems. Well enough of my sandbox wasn't sure if you were listening and your thoughts on the subject. Thanks and Take care.” (BLAH-GER: I was listening.)
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN and HUMANS ALIKE: I am thrilled that you are reading this Blah-g and you are as horrified as I am the way this 800 MEGA HURTZ System was slapped together. I know for a fact that these emails are from people frustrated BECAUSE THEY USE THIS DAMN TIN CAN SYSTEM, so 911 Management… WC Commissioners, Motorola, Staley Communications TAKE NOTICE !
I wouldn’t be surprised if there isn’t a march on the courthouse on of these days by the Fire, EMS and Police Officers, and it won’t be to give out ANY AWARDS !!! How about for a refund, or maybe exchange all those pretty lookin' radios for ones that work ?
If this were New Years I would have one wish. That would be for a full time technical director at the 911 center (you know, one with an FCC First Class Radio License that understands how emergency communications systems work and someone with a ton of common sense) and new jobs for all of the current employees (whether it be hired or elected) that helped design and waste our tax dollars putting this commugifcatusis system together.
I could care less what job they land just so it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the protection of my life or property. Then bring in a new EXPERIENCED crew to run our county.
Make an IQ test mandatory !
Is that more than one wish ??
DECODED,
K3SAM
http://800.k3sam.com - website
news@k3sam.com - tips and comments or if you just feel like throwing up
Quote of the day from Talk Group 1, Public Safety Secure Communications Channel used by Management: "Quakel Pipfuss Bey Fartmeself Yaka Yahak Blah-ger Poopruns MickityMuck Moneiforme Quakel Pipfuss Ficklegrass Papsmear Fartfuckle Againda"
So, what’s wrong with that ?
Just think, you have a WHOLE new week of radio problems, hitting the emergency button by mistake, hearing 911 say “10-9”, having your radio tell you the system is busy or that you are out of range of the nearest (working) tower site… and all that other bull-happy-ha-ha !
What the hell, it’s Monday so why limit this whole thing to 800 Mhz today ? With Bear Caves Low Band Tower being up and down more than a Duncan Yo-Yo plus the site in North Huntingdon doing the same thing you might not even know there is a disaster in your area and you can sleep like a baby all night long ! Isn’t that precious !
Before I forget, I posted a few new audio files on the web site for your listening pleasure on Saturday so if you didn’t have a chance to listen and download them you can do so when the boss isn’t looking.
Remember and don’t always forget… these audio files are FREE for the picking.
I was extremely pleased this weekend to receive a few NEW emails from readers of this Blah-g.
PERHAPS all of my time and effort into opening some eyes within Westmoreland County (WC) on this flawed communications system has not been wasted.. or better yet, maybe PEOPLE ARE OPENING THEIR OWN EYES without my help and seeing just how bad it really is.
So without further a do-do, and without making anyone lose their jobs ( all emails remain anonymous ) here we go with YOUR REAL feedback:
“I work in EMS in WC and for all the TAC channels we have now and all the fu_king money we spent for this stupid ass system, you would think you would be able to get through to 911. I’m glad that we have a call taker in station that I can talk to on VHF because 911 can't hear me on 800. The best is when you have a shitty call and you are with your patient, and your handy dandy portable 800mhz radio is beeping out of range when you need additional resources. But now I have to walk to my ambulance to try to talk to 911 on my mobile 800. HAHAHA!!! They don't answer me again!!! So my call taker at the station will call for additional help. We don't get a kick back from the county when they don't answer us. I want a county car just for putting up with these idiots.“
“I wonder why Mutual Aid has there own bank of dispatch and TAC channels? I'm sure that they have some sort of super power over the 911 management team to get this taken care of.“
“There is just more and more bull shit about this whole 800 system that I think is garbage. State of the art my ass.“
”The North Huntingdon Township fire companies are not even on the 800 system yet - but yet their warranties run out I believe in November. A maintenance plan is available on the radios but it is at an astronomical cost - they want a price per radio per month. It's almost like a cell phone repair plan. The cost per month to do ALL of the radios in some stations is about the same as buying a brand new portable every 3 months. Another subject of interest - surrounding areas to North Huntingdon Township (Sewickely Twp, Penn Twp, North Irwin Borough, and Irwin Borough) are on the system. Mutual Aid to these areas can only be done through portables. The base radios and mobile radios in these trucks exist - but they are NOT PROGRAMMED. Basically they are useless. Some of the companies just had them finally put in last month. They just suck up power when on. I don't understand why the county is doing this. Thanks for reading”
“I know your not a firefighter but I came across a website that I thought might be of interest to you and that is www.firefighterclosecalls.com they actually have a handful of stories about different radio failures not in Westmoreland Co but in other states around the USA . You will see the link on the home page .”
“If the IC (Incident Commander) of a fire scene wanted to have simplex communications at a fire ground, then they could have the interior crews switch to Channel 16 in their portables, as this is the designated "talkaround" channel for every portable. The ability IS already there. I don't think that making ALL of the fire tac channels simplex is the answer, as there are many types of calls that could benefit from the use of repeaters. As far as the TAC channels go, there are other places around the area that utilize a similar setup, with some slight differences. Allegheny County 911-North Zone (formerly Newcom) is an example. There are approximately 40 Fire companies for that region which operate on a conventional UHF system, with the companies being designated as either a "North" comapny, or a "South" company. All departments get dispatched on "Fire 1". The only trafic on this channel comes from the dispatch and no one else. Units always respond on their designated channel-"Fire 2" for North Co.'s, and "Fire 3" for South Co.'s. Once on scene they are assigned one of 4 fireground channels by dispatch. I'm not sure how true this is, but that's the way I was told it was supposed to be originally for Westmoreland--units were to respond and communicate with dispatch on the "Zone X Command" talkgroup, and then switch to a Fire TAC talkgroup ONLY after they got on scene. If it were like that, then at least it would be a little more consistant, as units would know to initially acknowledge/respond on their designated "Zone Command" talkgroup, depending on which zone of the county the department would happen to be in.” (BLAH-GER COMMENT: Thanks, however that is what CountyWide TAC Channels are for. Simplex should always be used on the fire grounds as I have been stressing AND has been backed up by most fire chiefs AND Homeland Security.)
“You have a very nice site. I also dislike the 800 radios I think it was a waste of money.”
“Just wanted to know if you were listening Saturday early afternoon not exactly sure of the time, I only caught part of the Transmission but what I did ways disturbing, This isn't regarding 911 but what the 800 mhz was supposed to do. The Avonmore Jubilee began this weekend, and to try to have a joint operation County wide Tach 12 was too be used to communicate among the services. Well some loud mouth crybaby doesn't play well with others he felt it wasn't needed and advised 911 dispatch he wasn't going to do the switch to Tach 12 and remain on his dispatch channel to of course delay any response. Well why the hell have any county wide Tach channels then, unless you enjoy clusters, not sure who the moron was but he needs a little education it seems. Well enough of my sandbox wasn't sure if you were listening and your thoughts on the subject. Thanks and Take care.” (BLAH-GER: I was listening.)
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN and HUMANS ALIKE: I am thrilled that you are reading this Blah-g and you are as horrified as I am the way this 800 MEGA HURTZ System was slapped together. I know for a fact that these emails are from people frustrated BECAUSE THEY USE THIS DAMN TIN CAN SYSTEM, so 911 Management… WC Commissioners, Motorola, Staley Communications TAKE NOTICE !
I wouldn’t be surprised if there isn’t a march on the courthouse on of these days by the Fire, EMS and Police Officers, and it won’t be to give out ANY AWARDS !!! How about for a refund, or maybe exchange all those pretty lookin' radios for ones that work ?
If this were New Years I would have one wish. That would be for a full time technical director at the 911 center (you know, one with an FCC First Class Radio License that understands how emergency communications systems work and someone with a ton of common sense) and new jobs for all of the current employees (whether it be hired or elected) that helped design and waste our tax dollars putting this commugifcatusis system together.
I could care less what job they land just so it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the protection of my life or property. Then bring in a new EXPERIENCED crew to run our county.
Make an IQ test mandatory !
Is that more than one wish ??
DECODED,
K3SAM
http://800.k3sam.com - website
news@k3sam.com - tips and comments or if you just feel like throwing up
Quote of the day from Talk Group 1, Public Safety Secure Communications Channel used by Management: "Quakel Pipfuss Bey Fartmeself Yaka Yahak Blah-ger Poopruns MickityMuck Moneiforme Quakel Pipfuss Ficklegrass Papsmear Fartfuckle Againda"
